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Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2002 9:50 am Post subject:

Well, since my friend is ordering a few things off of newegg, it prompted me to finally work on my system just a little.

My main goal is to quiet down the thing. Its just way too loud with the Thermalright SK-6 and stock fans that came with it. Plus, I'm only getting temps around 50C and I think they can be lower. So are there any new HSF combos out there that are somewhat quiet and still get the job done?

Also, as for case fans, I currently only have 2 exhaust fans. Whats the theory behind how much intake vs exhaust the case should have?

I ordered some rounded IDE cables too, which should help the circulation, but we'll see how my case temps fare with only those and one extra case fan. Then I'll decide if I still need to change around my cooling options.

Thanks for any tips. I haven't read through many reviews yet but I thought I would post first and get a few suggestions. I'm on my way to hardocp and toms now ...

Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2002 3:41 pm Post subject:

I hate to suggest it since you've already got the SK-6, but try the SLK-800 with a 70mm YSTech magnetic tip-driven fan. I give the credit to JustAnEngineer for coming up with that one [ Very Happy

]

------

strokes 'till genius.

Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2002 5:25 pm Post subject:

Hold off on replacing your heatsink until you have tried some less expensive options first.

I hope to find out first-hand how well the Thermalright SLK-800 works with one of the YS-Tech 70mm TMD fans (probably the 4500rpm fan rather than the 5600rpm version) by the end of the month. I will put it into my backup PC to replace the Thermaltake Volcano 7.

The SK-6 is a pretty good heatsink among 60mm units. (See Dan's CPU Cooler Review that Ate Sheboygan.) Before spending a bunch to replace it, you might play around with your case cooling. 50°C is not terrible for an AthlonXP under full load. I usually see around 53°C on this backup PC with a Volcano7 in a cramped case, but my main system runs significantly cooler with an Alpha PAL-8045 and much better case cooling.

What is your motherboard or case temperature and what is the ambient temperature in your computer room? If you have an obnoxiously-loud fan on the SK-6 and still see somewhat warm processor temperatures, I would bet on poor case ventilation as a likely culprit. This is actually good news because case fans are much cheaper to add and much easier to modify than high performance heatsinks. You could put a slower 60mm fan on your heatsink and add some more 80mm or 92mm fans to your case to get better overall cooling with less noise.

This 4800rpm Sanyo-Denki 60mm fan puts out an acceptable 21.9 cfm with a respectable 28.5 dBA noise level. I ran that 4800rpm fan on overclocked and overvolted Duron and Athlon CPUs with an Alpha PAL-6035 and a cheap CoolerMaster DP5-6H51, so it should work fine on your SK-6 if you are looking for something less headache-inducing than the whine of the Delta 6800rpm and faster fans. This is not a completely "silent" solution, but it is a reasonable compromise between silence and performance. Notice that the Delta fan with similar flow is 8 dB louder. If you are used to a Delta, you probably won't hear the Sanyo-Denki at all.

For case cooling, there are many options. The one that I currently like the best is having a rheostat to adjust the fan speed to balance cooling and noise requirements. This inexpensive ($ Cool

80x25mm 800-3700rpm YS-Tech fan with included manual speed adjustment knob is very quiet at low speed, but can move an impressive amount of air at its highest speed. This is the fan that is going back onto the Alpha PAL-8045 when I reassemble my main system. I am considering getting several more of them to replace my case fans as well.

:pawa1:

Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2002 7:21 pm Post subject:

Thanks for all the tips. Seems like that post was quite well though out JustAnEngineer ... and very helpful.

I was definitely waiting to see what the round ide cables and new 80mm intake fan would do for my case temp before dropping any larger amounts of cash into a new heat sink. I'm already considering the quieter 60mm fans for my heatsinks b/c I'm really sick of that loud buzzing noise. The two 60+ decibel fans on my processors are just a bit much. Dropping that by more than half would probably sound like silence to me. And if I can make up for the loss in cfm with a little better case ventilation and cooling, its well worth it.

The actual temps I seem to be getting on the CPUs are hovering around 50°C. The case ambient is about 24-27°C and the room ambient a little cooler.

I guess we'll see what happens in a few days when I get this new stuff in my case. Thanks again for the suggestions and I'll let you knwo what happens.

Posted: Wed Sep 04, 2002 7:38 pm Post subject:

Get a 60 to 80mm fan adapter. You can get one for 10.00 on Newegg (I did). You can also get a high output 80mm fan that will be quieter than your 60mm (I did). I use a Vantec Copper X and get 49c. Granted, it could be cooler but I have a problem with using this 120mm fan I have. It's way too friggin loud.

Life is a like a box of chocolates.....when it's done it's done.

EEps · Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2002 2:34 am Post subject:

Quote:

Get a 60 to 80mm fan adapter. You can get one for 10.00 on Newegg (I did). You can also get a high output 80mm fan that will be quieter than your 60mm (I did). I use a Vantec Copper X and get 49c. Granted, it could be cooler but I have a problem with using this 120mm fan I have. It's way too friggin loud.

Life is a like a box of chocolates.....when it's done it's done.

60mm to 80mm adapters seem like a neat idea but overall they degrade the performance too much to be effective. On the front page, this explains a great way to pick out a cooler.

From the article:

Quote:

Rule five: If a cooler has a normal-sized heat sink with an 80mm fan on top of it, funnelled down onto the sink with a "fandaptor" widget, then the cooler's performance is much less likely to excite you. Fandaptors are all inefficient; normal computer fans don't have much static pressure capacity, so they don't work well into a funnel. But 80mm fans are quieter than 60mm ones, all things being equal; that helps.

I've been looking into creating a low cost adapter for some time now.

I just picked up a Ook Deluxe Plate Hanger set (#50471) at Home Depot for $2 and will see if I can get it to work with my CoolerMaster 60x80 aluminum heatsink. It will be a bugger to put on/take off but once it's on, it shouldn't make a difference. I'll have to reshape/adjust it a bit to make it fit better...

BamZipPow
...how things get done

Edited by - bamzippow on 09/05/2002 06:39:23

Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2002 2:53 am Post subject:

IPKonfig is saying bad things about the YS-Tech tip magnetic drive fans this morning. I saw this link on the front page of the [H].

I don't know how much substance there is to this "news". The 20% overspeed would be very easy to explain if the reviewer got a PD1270155B-2F model when he expected a PD1270153B-2F.

:pawa1:

Posted: Thu Sep 05, 2002 9:19 pm Post subject:

Quote:

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:

60mm to 80mm adapters seem like a neat idea but overall they degrade the performance too much to be effective. On the front page, this explains a great way to pick out a cooler.

From the article:

Quote:

Rule five: If a cooler has a normal-sized heat sink with an 80mm fan on top of it, funnelled down onto the sink with a "fandaptor" widget, then the cooler's performance is much less likely to excite you. Fandaptors are all inefficient; normal computer fans don't have much static pressure capacity, so they don't work well into a funnel. But 80mm fans are quieter than 60mm ones, all things being equal; that helps.

I've been looking into creating a low cost adapter for some time now.

I just picked up a Ook Deluxe Plate Hanger set (#50471) at Home Depot for $2 and will see if I can get it to work with my CoolerMaster 60x80 aluminum heatsink. It will be a bugger to put on/take off but once it's on, it shouldn't make a difference. I'll have to reshape/adjust it a bit to make it fit better...
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote>

Umm, that isn't very accurate. My temp went from 52c to 49c using the 80mm fan with the adapter. Then again, that's just me. And, he's talking about a "normal" case fan. Mine pushes 48.7 cfm, waaaay more than a "normal" case fan. My fan is here:

http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduct.asp?submit=manufactory&catalog=127&manufactory=1564&DEPA=1&sortby=14&order=1

It's the 8.00 adjustable speed one.

Life is a like a box of chocolates.....when it's done it's done.

Edited by - hrbib21 on 09/06/2002 01:23:34

Big Dog Joined: 04 May 2001 Posts: 3307 Location: USA

Just over a week ago I put together 2 identical boards with SLK-800 & YS variable speed 80mm fans, XP 2000's, in basically identical Antec 800 cases, the main difference being one of the cases has the Antec 350 dual fan psu w/ the hsf attached using a phase tab, the other standard Antec 300 psu using goop instead of the phase tab.

As a side note, the dual fan Antec really sucks out the air, amazing what a nice psu it is. It runs about 2C° warmer than the case with standard psu, I attribute this to phase tab instead of goop on the hsf. A little surprised there was that much difference since I couldn't find my tube of silver and used the white goop instead.

The cases are sitting next to each other, I'm running CPUCool, have identical temps for Temp 3 (always within +-0.5° difference) which should be my inside case temp. The cooler of the 2 runs 9°-10° above that temp, the other runs around 12°-14° above. I believe the reason for the difference is the thermal compound, though it might be compounded with the fact the Antec dual fan is sucking out so much air (with 2 other 80mm case fans sitting right below the psu unit it's robbing the heatsink fan of air. I plan on moving one of the 2 80mm fans on the rear of the case to the front bottom as an intake and using 3 80mm intake fans and only one 80mm exhaust (it also has the twin fan psu).

The ys variable rheostat speed fans are pretty quiet. They whine just a bit a full speed but think I can eliminate that when I get out the dremel and attach the speed controls to the empty face plate, add some rubber washers to the hsfans and look for any aberrations to the fan blades.

Posted: Fri Sep 06, 2002 7:07 pm Post subject:

That sounds great, Beast. Even 14°C above case temp is pretty good. 9° is outstanding, considering that you have not installed insanely-loud fans like the Vantec Tornado.

Since [H]ardOCP has linked another story about problems with the tip magnetic drive fans, I am glad that you chose the variable-speed 80mm fans instead. I have one of those to go back on an Alpha PAL-8045 when the motherboard returns.

:pawa1:

Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2002 9:39 am Post subject:

Quote:

My main goal is to quiet down the thing. Its just way too loud with the Thermalright SK-6 and stock fans that came with it. Plus, I'm only getting temps around 50C and I think they can be lower.

50C! I don't know about anyone else, but isn't that an extremely high operating temp? First of all, excuse my ignorance; but what processor is under the hood? Secondly, I'd be much more concerned about temp's then noise at this point. I own a Themalright SLK800, my operating temps have not risen above 30C even while Benchmark looping, and at 1698.2MHz w/146FSB, my current temp is 23C. I know many are saying "impossible", but these temps have been consistent among three mobo's in the last two months. I obsess with temperature, because it is vital to performance! The cooler a component is, the less likely it will malfunction, and beyond this colder tempreatures increase performance more than any other physical tweak. I would most definately remove the heatsink, and check the amount of Artic silver (if in fact there is any thermal paste at all!) or remove the thermal pad which may be under there causing the high temp's. Once this is done, clean all the thermalpaste (especially around the edges of the slightly elevated core) and then reapply Artic Silver II or III. Soem people actually prefer II over III. Place a minute dollop upon the center of the core, the amount of a matchhead. Gently and carefully spread the paste to the edges of the core, without causing the paste to run over the sides of the core. Those edges horizontal sides of the core need to be paste free. the paste should completely cover the core, just not overlap. After you have spread a very thin layer of Artic to the very edges of the core, carefully seat the HSF. While applying pressure on the clamping mechanism lock one edge under the Zif clamps, holding the fastened edge firmly in place, lay the Heatsink upon the core, and press down the opposite clamp...ensure the heatsink is facing correct edge, and is seated properly!

AX 1800 AKGKA @ 1689MHz/146FSB, Abit KX7333, 512MB OCZ DDR400,GF4 4400 Leadtek, CreativeLabs Audigy, 20GB DiamondMax HDD, TDK VeloCD-RW, Toshiba DVD, Antec 480W, Win98

EEps · Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2002 9:41 am Post subject:

Well...the plate holder works great for 80 mm fans!! You'll have to stretch the springs out a bit to work with the thicker fans.

After experimenting a bit, the plate holder has to be "adjusted" just a small smidgen so it doesn't interfere with the CPU socket. All you have to do is spread it out a bit so it doesn't rub up against the socket. This holder works perfectly with any of the 60x80 mm heatsinks!

I found out the best way to attach it is with the heatsink off. Remove the old fan and any support plates or adapters. With the spring on the bottom and the hooks facing in towards the heatsink, place the 80mm fan on top and hook the fan in the top holes. Adjust the width/spacing of the wire so it doesn't rub up against the socket holder. Put the new combo back on and tahdah!!

Hrbib21...you should try this baby and take full advantage of yer high output 80mm fan. I think yer temps will drop even more since the heatsink will get the full force effect of the fan.

I guess you could always try it with some wire to see how it would perform first. Just get some bailing wire to tie it on...

BamZipPow
...how things get done

Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2002 10:00 am Post subject:

$89 Permanent SOLUTIONto your problem. All the bending, twisting, modding, tweaking, and screwing around is not resolving the "core" issue. Your dang CPU's running HOT! I don't care what people tell you, HEAT is the enemy. A 10% drop in the average operating temperature of any given processor will essentially DOUBLE it's life expectancy! And even if you were to get your temps down to an acceptable range, if you ever decided to overclock, forget it.The link below exemplifies the least expensive watercooling kit on the market, all that's needed is a resevoir (easy). When you get to the page scroll down, and to the right to get the full picture/description
https://www.overclockershideout.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=o&Product_Code=E&Category_Code=WC
Good luck. If your interested, I'll send some articles on HEAT. But knowing the model including stepping code of your processor, would be a better place to start, because your essentially placing a "copper" band aid, on a burn victim's wound.

AX 1800 AKGKA @ 1689MHz/146FSB, Abit KX7333, 512MB OCZ DDR400,GF4 4400 Leadtek, CreativeLabs Audigy, 20GB DiamondMax HDD, TDK VeloCD-RW, Toshiba DVD, Antec 480W, Win98
http://service.madonion.com/compare?2k1=4415176
http://hometown.aol.com/keithsuppe/myhomepa

Edited by - Liquid3D on 09/07/2002 14:02:59

Edited by - Liquid3D on 09/07/2002 14:23:29

Big Dog Joined: 04 May 2001 Posts: 3307 Location: USA

Quote:

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:

50C! I don't know about anyone else, but isn't that an extremely high operating temp? First of all, excuse my ignorance; but what processor is under the hood? Secondly, I'd be much more concerned about temp's then noise at this point. I own a Themalright SLK800, my operating temps have not risen above 30C even while Benchmark looping, and at 1698.2MHz w/146FSB, my current temp is 23C. I know many are saying "impossible", but these temps have been consistent among three mobo's in the last two months. I obsess with temperature, because it is vital to performance! The cooler a component is, the less likely it will malfunction, and beyond this colder tempreatures increase performance more than any other physical tweak. I would most definately remove the heatsink, and check the amount of Artic silver (if in fact there is any thermal paste at all!) or remove the thermal pad which may be under there causing the high temp's. Once this is done, clean all the thermalpaste (especially around the edges of the slightly elevated core) and then reapply Artic Silver II or III. Soem people actually prefer II over III. Place a minute dollop upon the center of the core, the amount of a matchhead. Gently and carefully spread the paste to the edges of the core, without causing the paste to run over the sides of the core. Those edges horizontal sides of the core need to be paste free. the paste should completely cover the core, just not overlap. After you have spread a very thin layer of Artic to the very edges of the core, carefully seat the HSF. While applying pressure on the clamping mechanism lock one edge under the Zif clamps, holding the fastened edge firmly in place, lay the Heatsink upon the core, and press down the opposite clamp...ensure the heatsink is facing correct edge, and is seated properly!

AX 1800 AKGKA @ 1689MHz/146FSB, Abit KX7333, 512MB OCZ DDR400,GF4 4400 Leadtek, CreativeLabs Audigy, 20GB DiamondMax HDD, TDK VeloCD-RW, Toshiba DVD, Antec 480W, Win98
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

You're right, the SK-6 should be keeping this well below 50°, but it's possible he has bad case ventillation. If he isn't getting cooler air into the case it will keep blowing warmer and warmer air onto the heat sink. It very well could be a problem with interface material. We should have suggested he check the interface material first.

BAM, I am quite interested in your hanger, am thinking of trying this to attach an 80 to the thermalright cb-6l on a tbird 1.4.

EEps · Posted: Sat Sep 07, 2002 11:06 am Post subject:

Beast...that baby will fit on there just fine. I've tested it on there already and it auto adjusts to the height of the heatsink really well.

I picked up 4 of those CB-6L heatsinks...it seems that they get heat saturated too quickly...

BamZipPow
...how things get done