LITTLEBLACKDOG.COM

Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:06 am Post subject:

csign wrote:
anglachel wrote:
well I was thinking blue might work better actually, cause blue light has a short wave length (higher presision).
blue is somewhere around 400nm,infrared 800nm. That is 1/10000 or1/25000mm. I don't think that is going to mater when you try to see if a mouse has moved.

It all depends upon the instruments that you are using to measure it, I would think. 2.5x difference in length is no small amount.

Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 6:56 am Post subject:

Ed wrote:
skildude wrote:

unfortunately only insects would be able to tell if the mouse was connected

I guess that's why bug zappers use ultra-violet instead of infrared lamps. The insects can't see it and therefore fly right into them?

- Ed.

On the contrary, insects can see ultra violet wavelengths. Most flowers are very visible in UV light. The insects think they're headed towards some big flower then ZZZAAPP!!

Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 10:10 am Post subject:

Just being facetious. Wink

- Ed.

Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2004 11:29 am Post subject:

tecgod13 wrote:
Ed wrote:
skildude wrote:

unfortunately only insects would be able to tell if the mouse was connected

I guess that's why bug zappers use ultra-violet instead of infrared lamps. The insects can't see it and therefore fly right into them?

- Ed.

On the contrary, insects can see ultra violet wavelengths. Most flowers are very visible in UV light. The insects think they're headed towards some big flower then ZZZAAPP!!

about time someone noticed i had used the opposite end of the visible wavelengths. and gg for your extra efforts

Moderator Joined: 26 May 2001 Posts: 8155 Location: Borneo

Webster wrote:
csign wrote:
anglachel wrote:
well I was thinking blue might work better actually, cause blue light has a short wave length (higher presision).
blue is somewhere around 400nm,infrared 800nm. That is 1/10000 or1/25000mm. I don't think that is going to mater when you try to see if a mouse has moved.

It all depends upon the instruments that you are using to measure it, I would think. 2.5x difference in length is no small amount.

But not if you are measuring differences of 0.1mm with a wavelenght of 400nm

Posted: Mon May 24, 2004 12:41 pm Post subject:

csign wrote:
Webster wrote:
csign wrote:
anglachel wrote:
well I was thinking blue might work better actually, cause blue light has a short wave length (higher presision).
blue is somewhere around 400nm,infrared 800nm. That is 1/10000 or1/25000mm. I don't think that is going to mater when you try to see if a mouse has moved.

It all depends upon the instruments that you are using to measure it, I would think. 2.5x difference in length is no small amount.
But not if you are measuring differences of 0.1mm with a wavelenght of 400nm

the red light frequency is used due to the fact that it is easier to get an accurate reading with cheaper sensors than blue.

thus the reason that the blue laser CDs and DVDs that have been proposed have still not come to fruition.

the problem is with data processing. There are more than 2.5 times the number of wavecrests in a given interval in the blue light frequency than in the red that have to monitored for changes and timed to detect movement of the mouse.

basically, if you have a sensor that can listen to a certain number of status reports per second, and you are feeding it far more than it can process, you will lose accuracy.

Moderator Joined: 26 May 2001 Posts: 8155 Location: Borneo

The fact that untill very recently there were no blue semiconductor lasers may also be a reason in my humble*cough* opinion. It is also much easier to do a single layered cd than a multi layered and the reason of cheaper red light sensors just seems to me as completely wrong. A 50 speed cd player needs to be able a measure 60 MHz signal and that doesn't seem very high for an integrated photodiode.

Also the mouse doesn't measure the wavelenght but just the returning pulse which is much longer than the frequency of the light

Leg Humper Joined: 01 Jun 2004 Posts: 4702 Location: Utah

Blue optical mice work fine. I've even used one before. Worked great.

Posted: Sat Aug 21, 2004 4:00 pm Post subject:

TheGodAnubis wrote:

the red light frequency is used due to the fact that it is easier to get an accurate reading with cheaper sensors than blue.

thus the reason that the blue laser CDs and DVDs that have been proposed have still not come to fruition.

the problem is with data processing. There are more than 2.5 times the number of wavecrests in a given interval in the blue light frequency than in the red that have to monitored for changes and timed to detect movement of the mouse.

basically, if you have a sensor that can listen to a certain number of status reports per second, and you are feeding it far more than it can process, you will lose accuracy.

WHAT??? wavecrests? Uh, no. No sensor in the world can detect or process the number of wavecrests in light, and that has nothing to do with optical mouse technology. Si based optical sensors are more sensetive at longer wavelengths. This has nothing to do with processing at all. The sensor and proc are two different things, and the only data transfered between is the visual image(like a digital camera CCD) from the sensor, to the proc, which watches where and how fast the picture moves.

Cheaper procs have a lesser sampling rate than say a Logitech, and you will notice a smoother movement from newer mice.(eg, my 3 yr old Microsoft mouse sucks compared to my new 7 dollar KEIO mouse) To have a blue light in a mouse can work fine, as long as the sensor is the right type(trial and error, or look up the data sheets on the sensor to compare sensetivity at different wavelengths)

Actually, in theory white light would be best as it can offer a more balanced light level to the sensor without oversaturating it. Monochrome light has a hard time with contrast. White light can show off more detail. Hmmm... I think I'll try that Razz

Mutt Joined: 09 Apr 2003 Posts: 101 Location: Middle Earth

Wow!! You guys sure can get serious.

I just ripped mouse apart, replaced red with blue, all works fine. I did this about a year ago with my mouse at work and have had no problems. I do not use a mouse pad and have that light grey matt type finish computer desk.

I was actually thinking about putting in blue and red flashing ones, sort of like a police mouse:). Keep an eye on things when I am not around.

Just check to make sure LED's are same power, can't rember what it is now, 3 v or something.

Butt Sniffer Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 1135

I might go buy a optical mouse and try the clear led on it

Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 2:56 pm Post subject:

cygnusx wrote:
I might go buy a optical mouse and try the clear led on it

Hmmmmm. Careful, most white LED's are not exactly efficent. the mcd(millicandella) rating on most is between 50-300 while the red ones used are around 2000. Blue can be found around 1000 nowdays.

Unless you design a led driver to power a high output Luxeon Star or something like that, a white led probably won't work well or at all. If you want to try anyways, just look for an led with as low of voltage requriements as possible (2.5 would be ideal) Good luck, If I try this myself, I will post results here.

EEps · Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 4:03 pm Post subject:

Lurch wrote:
cygnusx wrote:
I might go buy a optical mouse and try the clear led on it

Hmmmmm. Careful, most white LED's are not exactly efficent. the mcd(millicandella) rating on most is between 50-300 while the red ones used are around 2000. Blue can be found around 1000 nowdays.

Did someone mention LEDs? Big Smile

Quote:

10,000 mcd WHITE LED $US2.99
5mm, T1-3/4"
3.6 - 4 VDC @ 20mA
10,000 mcd, 120 mW Power Dissipation
20 Degree viewing angle.

This sucker is super bright! Don't look at it directly...you'll feel the pain of yer eyes screaming fer mercy... Shocking Smile

From my favorite place to get "stuff"...Hosfelt. It's about 3/4th down the page...just under the Ultra Brite Ultraviolet LED... Wink Smile

If you want to be super cool/experimental, use this one...

Quote:
Multicolor/Multipattern 5mm LED
$US3.49
Brand-new Multicolor LED
Red-Green-Blue-Violet-Orange-Teal
3 Seperate patterns on 20mA charge

Butt Sniffer Joined: 22 Mar 2004 Posts: 1135

Well...I gotta learn how to solder better before I do it anyways XD

Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 4:36 pm Post subject:

cygnusx wrote:
Well...I gotta learn how to solder better before I do it anyways XD

Thats easy to do.

Now doing it without melting random parts and burning your fingers, well thats another story... Rolling Eyes

csign wrote:

anglachel wrote:

Ed wrote:

skildude wrote:

tecgod13 wrote:

Ed wrote:

skildude wrote:

Webster wrote:

csign wrote:

anglachel wrote:

csign wrote:

Webster wrote:

csign wrote:

anglachel wrote:

Lycander wrote:

TheGodAnubis wrote:

cygnusx wrote:

Lurch wrote:

cygnusx wrote:

Quote:

Quote:

cygnusx wrote: