LITTLEBLACKDOG.COM

Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 8:24 pm Post subject: refrigerated watercooling

I know this has been done before, I'm just refining the idea a bit.

How about moving the pump, radiator, and tank out of the computer case and mounting it all in a mini-fridge? This would eliminate the major condensation issue with putting the whole machine in the fridge. like so:

(quick and crappy paint diagram)

For the coolant, I'd use antifreeze, water alone could possible freeze if the fridge was cold enough. All the lines would have to be insulated, especially inside the case to prevent condensation.

Here's the pros and cons I've come up with so far:

Then theres always flourinert (sp?). Same idea but with most of the components in a tank.

So, here's your chance to tell me why my idea won't work. Please, pick out the flaws. I'm considering something like this, I'd like to think it would work before I actually do it.

Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 9:33 pm Post subject:

you forgot a major problem

you would have to start that fridge going long before you wanted to operate the pc.

what would the coolant lines run to and what would pump the coolant around.

assuming you got the first 2 parts figured out what would you connect to the heatsink or cpu tp disipate the heat.

very interesting concept though

Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 9:54 pm Post subject:

i don't understand
what will the pump relay card do?
Running the tube thru the Mini fridge should achieve the cooling.
school me

Posted: Tue Feb 10, 2004 10:22 pm Post subject: Re: refrigerated watercooling

Dypheron wrote:

Cons
Heat is still radiated into the room
Condensation is still a problem in the case
Possible effects on the pump caused by antifreeze and the cold?
Pain in the ass to relocate
Still doesn't do anything about PSU heat

Since when is heat radiated into the room a bad thing? I live in a basement, and the computers keep me warm...

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 5:52 am Post subject:

I wrote that while I was dead tired last night, so I'll add in what i forgot.

Quote:

you would have to start that fridge going long before you wanted to operate the pc.

what would the coolant lines run to and what would pump the coolant around.

assuming you got the first 2 parts figured out what would you connect to the heatsink or cpu tp disipate the heat.

I thought about the first one for a minute, and if you think about it, even without the fridge turned on it would still operate like a normal watercooled box. Obviously the pump would still have to be on...The coolant line would run from the tank, through the pump, to the top of the fridge. I'm trying to find some quick release connectors for the coolant hoses, so that it will be easier to move the assembly around if I ever actually make it. From the fridge unit, 2 coolant hoses (one cold and one return) and the pump turn on wire, wrapped in pipe insulation run to the computer. Inside, the coolant lines will run to waterblocks on the CPU, GPU, and chipset. The used coolant returns to the fridge, going through a radiator before returning to the tank.

Quote:
what will the pump relay card do?

I decided not to use that. A few articles I've read on overclockers.com have talked about a PCI card that does nothing more than switch the pump on when the PC is turned on. I can achieve the same thing with a simple solid state relay and diode plugged into a power connector for about $20 less. Besides, the card was designed for pumps mounted inside the case.

Quote:
Since when is heat radiated into the room a bad thing? I live in a basement, and the computers keep me warm...

Heh, lucky you. It wouldn't be so bad in my computer room if I didn't have this dual xeon server running. I swear, this thing puts out enough heat to heat the whole upstairs about 10 degrees warmer than the rest of the house...

I would think that this could be done for about $100 more than a normal watercooling setup would cost. A mini fridge runs around $60 or so depending on where you go, antifreeze is about $6 a gallon, and the tubing is pretty cheap as well. Of course, adding things like thermometers and fluid level sensors will bump up the price.

Something else I was thinking about, I wonder if it would be able to handle more than one PC at a time? With another pump and radiator it might work...

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 6:06 am Post subject:

ok looking at the inventiveness of the project wouldn't it be much simpler to just cool the system with water cooling system that is already currently available.

and i dont think you want radiator fluid as a coolant. not because it wont cool the system but it will allow the system to reach higher temps. what people fail to realize is that common radiator coolant actually gets much hotter than water. not that the constant flow of fluid over a small cpu would cause it to overheat.

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 9:56 am Post subject:

Quote:
and i dont think you want radiator fluid as a coolant. not because it wont cool the system but it will allow the system to reach higher temps.

You'd almost have to use antifreeze in the system, depending on the minifridge. There's the possibility of plain water freezing in the minifridge if the temp drops too low for too long. But I'll keep that in mind. Never occured to me that water is a much better coolant than antifreeze, think I had antifreeze on my mind after buying some for my car. Maybe distilled water with just enough antifreeze in it to prevent it from freezing?

Thanks for the advice and suggestions so far guys! I'm that much closer to refining the idea!

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 7:38 pm Post subject:

Using antifreeze is an excellent idea, especially in a minifridge where the iceboxes aren't very well separated from the rest of the fridge. Skildude is on the right track. So use at least if not less than a 50/50 mix of water and antifreeze. Straight antifreeze doesn't have the heat capacity of water and therefore won't cool as effectively. A 50/50 mix will generally protect against freezes down to around -30 degrees. I don't think it will get that cold in the fridge, so you could safely use a smaller ratio. Besides, ethylene glycol comes in all sorts of colors (green, blue, purple, red - depending upon the brand and other chemicals in the coolant) and would save you the trouble of adding dyes! Laughing

The solid state relay would be the way to go. The water-cooling system I helped my brother build uses one. Simply wire one side of the AC current through the main contacts, and use the 12v leads from your 'puters power supply to activate the relay coil.

Another neat bonus to the fridge idea would be added noise reduction - which is generally one reason why people go with water cooling. With the radiator and fan inside the fridge, you wouldn't be able to hear the fan at all. but that can also be bad, because you won't know when the pump or radiator fan quit, so you might think about adding some indicator lights on the outside of the fridge wired in series through the pump and fan, so that when one quits, the light blinks out.

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 8:42 pm Post subject:

one more thought is this project is probably going to cost more than the pc is worth in time and money. all the added cost of just running a mini fridge which i am assuming uses at least 2X the power to run itself vs a cooling fan. and all the material cost of rounding up the crap you intend to use. I have no doubt you can do it. it seems to me it would be very cost ineffective. yeah you lose some fan noise but you gain a minifridge making noise. and that mini fridge is going to require some of your space(hopefully you have plenty)

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 8:45 pm Post subject:

Quote:
but that can also be bad, because you won't know when the pump or radiator fan quit, so you might think about adding some indicator lights on the outside of the fridge wired in series through the pump and fan, so that when one quits, the light blinks out.

More good advice. Some more digging around over @ overclockers turned up several plans to shut the machine down if the coolant stops flowing. I'll work that into the design, along with an audible alarm of some sort.

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 8:53 pm Post subject:

skildude wrote:
one more thought is this project is probably going to cost more than the pc is worth in time and money. all the added cost of just running a mini fridge which i am assuming uses at least 2X the power to run itself vs a cooling fan.

If you're in a situation like mine (college dorm), you'll already have a mini-fridge up and running in your room.

I like this idea! Let us know how it turns out (I toyed around with the idea of refrigerated cooling a while back, but was too lazy to ever attempt anything).

As for the quick-release hoses, though, be sure that they'll only release when you intend them to.

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 10:25 pm Post subject:

Just be sure you place your computer in very close proximity to the refrigerator compressor.

/Hilarity ensues

Posted: Wed Feb 11, 2004 11:53 pm Post subject:

I've thought about using an aircondioning condenser for cooling (pressurized freon)... but havent ever bothered working out a design that would actually be a viable solution for that... there would DEFINATELY be a need for eliminating water condensation in that setting.

I've seen, somewhere, a computer that a guy submerged in a non-conductive oil for cooling... was an interesting idea, until you want to upgrade...

Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2004 12:26 pm Post subject:

About a year ago, I spent some time toying around with a prototype using freon without any moving parts (technically... although the system did include two ball-check valves to ensure the freon would flow properly) It didn't rely on a compressor, instead using a heated resevoir. As the freon heats, it boiled off from a liquid state and would start the freon cycle. It did work to an extent, but it wasn't very efficient, so I dropped it. But every since then I've been trying to come up with some other viable freon options that could be easily removed when upgrading, replacing bad components, etc...

Stray Dog Joined: 23 Nov 2003 Posts: 38

how would you stop condensation from going into the case ????

DSTG_II wrote:

Dypheron wrote:

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skildude wrote: